rfc9712.original.xml   rfc9712.xml 
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<?xml-model href="rfc7991bis.rnc"?>
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<!-- formatted by ST 11/08/24 -->
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<rfc xmlns:xi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude" category="bcp" <!--[rfced] This document will be assigned a new BCP number. Please
docName="draft-daley-gendispatch-venue-requirements-03" ipr="trust200902" let us know if this is not correct (i.e., it should be part of
updates="8718 8719" submissionType="IETF" xml:lang="en" version="3" consensus= an existing BCP).
"true">
See the complete list of BCPs here:
https://www.rfc-editor.org/bcps
-->
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were absent in the submitted XML file, so we have
added them accordingly.
-->
<rfc xmlns:xi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude" category="bcp" docName="draft-da
ley-gendispatch-venue-requirements-03" ipr="trust200902" number="9712" updates="
8718, 8719" obsoletes="" tocInclude="true" submissionType="IETF" xml:lang="en" v
ersion="3" consensus="true" sortRefs="true" symRefs="true">
<front> <front>
<title>IETF Meeting Venue Requirements Review</title>
<seriesInfo name="Internet-Draft" value="draft-daley-gendispatch-venue-requi
rements-03"/>
<!--[rfced] The short title that spans the top of the PDF file was
absent. We were able to fit the full title, so we included it. If
any further updates are desired, please let us know.
Current (in PDF file):
IETF Meeting Venue Requirements Review
-->
<title abbrev="IETF Meeting Venue Requirements Review">IETF Meeting Venue Re
quirements Review</title>
<seriesInfo name="RFC" value="9712"/>
<author fullname="Jay Daley" initials="J." surname="Daley" role="editor"> <author fullname="Jay Daley" initials="J." surname="Daley" role="editor">
<organization abbrev="IETF Administration LLC">IETF Administration LLC</or ganization> <organization abbrev="IETF Administration LLC">IETF Administration LLC</or ganization>
<address> <address>
<postal> <postal>
<street>1000 N. West Street, Suite 1200</street> <street>1000 N. West Street, Suite 1200</street>
<city>Wilimington</city> <city>Wilimington</city>
<region>DE</region> <region>DE</region>
<code>19801</code> <code>19801</code>
<country>US</country> <country>United States of America</country>
</postal> </postal>
<email>jay@staff.ietf.org</email> <email>jay@staff.ietf.org</email>
</address> </address>
</author> </author>
<author fullname="Sean Turner" initials="S." surname="Turner"> <author fullname="Sean Turner" initials="S." surname="Turner">
<organization abbrev="IETF Administration LLC">IETF Administration LLC</or ganization> <organization abbrev="IETF Administration LLC">IETF Administration LLC</or ganization>
<address> <address>
<postal> <postal>
<street>1000 N. West Street, Suite 1200</street> <street>1000 N. West Street, Suite 1200</street>
<city>Wilimington</city> <city>Wilimington</city>
<region>DE</region> <region>DE</region>
<code>19801</code> <code>19801</code>
<country>US</country> <country>United States of America</country>
</postal> </postal>
<email>sean@sn3rd.com</email> <email>sean@sn3rd.com</email>
</address> </address>
</author> </author>
<date year="2024"/> <date year="2024" month="December"/>
<!-- [rfced] Please insert any keywords (beyond those that appear in
the title) for use on https://www.rfc-editor.org/search. -->
<abstract>
<!--[rfced] Is this document "proposing" or "providing" updates to
RFCs 8718 and 8719? May we update the Abstract's lead-in sentence
from "this document proposes updates" to "this document was
developed to update" as shown below for clarity?
Original:
Following a review of the IETF meeting venue requirements, this
document proposes updates to RFC 8718 "IETF Plenary Meeting Venue
Selection Process", clarifies how the IETF Administration Support
Activity (IASA) should interpret some elements of RFC 8718, and
proposes a replacement exploratory meeting process, thereby updating
RFC 8719 "High-Level Guidance for the Meeting Policy of the IETF".
Perhaps:
Following a review of the IETF meeting venue requirements, this
document was developed to update "IETF Plenary Meeting Venue
Selection Process" (RFC 8718), clarify how the IETF Administration
Support Activity (IASA) should interpret some elements of RFC 8718,
and specify a replacement exploratory meeting process, thereby
updating "High-Level Guidance for the Meeting Policy of the IETF"
(RFC 8719).
-->
<area>General</area>
<workgroup>Internet Engineering Task Force</workgroup>
<abstract>
<t>Following a review of the IETF meeting venue requirements, this documen t proposes updates <t>Following a review of the IETF meeting venue requirements, this documen t proposes updates
to RFC 8718 “IETF Plenary Meeting Venue Selection Process”, clarifies ho w the IETF to "IETF Plenary Meeting Venue Selection Process" (RFC 8718), clarifies how the IETF
Administration Support Activity (IASA) should interpret some elements of RFC 8718, and Administration Support Activity (IASA) should interpret some elements of RFC 8718, and
proposes a replacement exploratory meeting process, thereby updating RFC proposes a replacement exploratory meeting process, thereby updating "Hi
8719 "High-Level gh-Level
Guidance for the Meeting Policy of the IETF".</t> Guidance for the Meeting Policy of the IETF" (RFC 8719).</t>
</abstract> </abstract>
<note title="Editorial Note"> <!-- <note title="Editorial Note">
<t>Discussion of this draft takes place on the mtgvenue mailing list, whic h has its home page <t>Discussion of this draft takes place on the mtgvenue mailing list, whic h has its home page
at <eref target="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mtgvenue" bracket s="angle"/>. </t> at <eref target="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mtgvenue" bracket s="angle"/>. </t>
<t>The source code and an issues list for this draft can be found at <eref <t>The source code and an issues list for this draft can be found at <eref
target="https://github.com/JayDaley/draft-daley-gendispatch-venue-requ irements" target="https://github.com/JayDaley/draft-daley-gendispatch-venue-requ irements"
brackets="angle"/>. </t> brackets="angle"/>. </t>
</note> </note>-->
</front> </front>
<middle> <middle>
<section> <section>
<name>Introduction</name> <name>Introduction</name>
<t>IETF meeting venues are researched, negotiated, booked and managed in a <t>IETF meeting venues are researched, negotiated, booked, and managed in
ccordance with <xref accordance with
target="RFC8718"/> “IETF Plenary Meeting Venue Selection Process” and "IETF Plenary Meeting Venue Selection Process" <xref target="RFC8718"/> an
<xref d "High-Level
target="RFC8719"/> "High-Level Guidance for the Meeting Policy of the Guidance for the Meeting Policy of the IETF" <xref target="RFC8719"/>. Whi
IETF". While these le these
RFCs were published in 2020, the substantive work was completed in 2018 RFCs were published in 2020, the substantive work was completed in 2018,
and since then there and since then, there
have been a number of developments that have affected the efficacy of ou have been a number of developments that have affected the efficacy of th
r current model for e current model for
IETF meetings.</t> IETF meetings.</t>
<!--[rfced] Is "informed" the intended word here or would
"communicated" be clearer?
Original:
The IASA has reviewed the venue selection in light of these
developments, primarily informed by the staff who work on venue
selection, and has identified a number of issues to be addressed
by a combination of updates to those RFCs and clarifications of
interpretation.
Perhaps:
The IASA has reviewed the venue selection in light of these
developments, which were primarily communicated by the staff who
work on venue selection, and has identified a number of issues
to be addressed by a combination of updates to those RFCs and
clarifications of interpretation.
-->
<t>The IASA has reviewed the venue selection in light of these development s, primarily <t>The IASA has reviewed the venue selection in light of these development s, primarily
informed by the staff who work on venue selection, and has identified a number of issues to informed by the staff who work on venue selection, and has identified a number of issues to
be addressed by a combination of updates to those RFCs and clarification s of be addressed by a combination of updates to those RFCs and clarification s of
interpretation.</t> interpretation.</t>
</section> </section>
<section> <section>
<name>Summary of changes to <xref target="RFC8718"/> and <xref target="RFC <name>Summary of Changes to RFCs 8718 and 8719</name>
8719"/>:</name>
<!--[rfced] The text in Section 2 works off of the section title. To
avoid this and the use of a colon in the section title, may
we insert a lead-in sentence as shown below?
Original:
2. Summary of changes to [RFC8718] and [RFC8719]:
1. Updates the Meeting (Rotation) Policy of [RFC8719] with
a new process for the selection of exploratory meetings...
Perhaps:
2. Summary of Changes to RFCs 8718 and 8719
This document makes the following changes to [RFC8718] and [RFC8719]:
1. Updates the Meeting (Rotation) Policy specified in [RFC8719] with
a new process for the selection of exploratory meetings...
-->
<ol> <ol>
<li>Updates the Meeting (Rotation) Policy of <xref target="RFC8719"/> wi th a new process for <li>Updates the Meeting (Rotation) Policy specified in <xref target="RF C8719"/> with a new process for
the selection of exploratory meetings.</li> the selection of exploratory meetings.</li>
<li>Clarifies the interpretation of "close proximity" as used in <xref t arget="RFC8718" <li>Clarifies the interpretation of "close proximity" as used in <xref t arget="RFC8718"
/>.</li> />.</li>
<li>Updates the room block requirement of <xref target="RFC8718"/> from <!-- [rfced] FYI: We updated the quoted text from RFC 8718 to exactly
“one-third of the match (i.e., we updated "one-third of the projected attendees" to
projected attendees” to a more flexible “sufficient rooms to meet the "one-third or more of projected meeting attendees") as shown
expected below.
demand”.</li>
<li>Clarifies that the IASA should interpret any reference to Overflow H Original:
otels in <xref 3. Updates the room block requirement of [RFC8718] from "one-third of the
projected attendees" to a more flexible "sufficient rooms to meet the
expected demand".
Current:
3. Updates the room block requirement specified in [RFC8718] from
"one-third or more of projected meeting attendees" to a more
flexible "sufficient rooms to meet the expected demand".
-->
<li>Updates the room block requirement specified in <xref target="RFC8718"/>
from "one-third or more of
projected meeting attendees" to a more flexible "sufficient rooms to m
eet the expected
demand".</li>
<li>Clarifies that the IASA should interpret any reference to "Overflow
Hotels" in <xref
target="RFC8718"/> as an entirely optional feature that the IASA can choose to provide target="RFC8718"/> as an entirely optional feature that the IASA can choose to provide
at its own discretion.</li> at its own discretion.</li>
<li>Updates various parts of <xref target="RFC8718"/> that specify ad-ho
c space to better <li>Updates the ad hoc space specified in various parts of <xref target=
match the community requirements as expressed in post-meeting surveys. "RFC8718"/>
</li> to better match the community requirements, as expressed in post-meeting
surveys.</li>
</ol> </ol>
</section> </section>
<section> <section>
<name>The Meeting (Rotation) Policy and Exploratory Meetings</name> <name>The Meeting (Rotation) Policy and Exploratory Meetings</name>
<section> <section>
<name>Current Policy</name> <name>Current Policy</name>
<t>The current meeting rotation policy is set as the "1-1-1-*" policy in <xref <t>The current meeting rotation policy is set as the "1-1-1-*" policy in <xref
target="RFC8719"/>:</t> target="RFC8719"/>:</t>
<!-- [rfced] FYI: We removed repeated text that appeared to be a typo (the
text was the same as what appears in the next <blockquote> after "and"):
Original:
[...] the meeting policy (let's call this the "1-1-1" policy) is that meeting
s
should rotate between North America, Europe, and Asia. the 1-1-1-* meeting
policy is a slightly modified version of the aforementioned 1-1-1 meeting
policy that allows for additional flexibility in the form of an exploratory
meeting (denoted with an "*").
Current:
[...] the meeting policy (let's call this the "1-1-1" policy) is that meeting
s
should rotate between North America, Europe, and Asia.
-->
<blockquote><t>[...] the meeting policy (let's call this the "1-1-1" pol icy) is that <blockquote><t>[...] the meeting policy (let's call this the "1-1-1" pol icy) is that
meetings should rotate between North America, Europe, and Asia. the meetings should rotate between North America, Europe, and Asia.</t><
1-1-1-* meeting /blockquote>
policy is a slightly modified version of the aforementioned 1-1-1 me
eting policy that
allows for additional flexibility in the form of an exploratory meet
ing (denoted with an
"*").</t></blockquote>
<t>and</t> <t>and</t>
<blockquote><t>[...] the 1-1-1-* meeting policy is a slightly modified v ersion of the <blockquote><t>[...] the 1-1-1-* meeting policy is a slightly modified v ersion of the
aforementioned 1-1-1 meeting policy that allows for additional flexi bility in the form aforementioned 1-1-1 meeting policy that allows for additional flexi bility in the form
of an exploratory meeting (denoted with an "*").</t></blockquote> of an exploratory meeting (denoted with an "*").</t></blockquote>
<t><xref target="RFC8719" section="4"/> further sets out the process for agreeing on an <t>Furthermore, <xref target="RFC8719" section="4"/> describes the proce ss for agreeing on an
exploratory meeting, which includes the requirement for a participant to nominate the exploratory meeting, which includes the requirement for a participant to nominate the
city, the community to discuss it and the IETF Chair to determine if t here is consensus city, the community to discuss it, and the IETF chair to determine if there is consensus
for the city to be considered suitable.</t> for the city to be considered suitable.</t>
</section> </section>
<section> <section>
<name>Discussion</name> <name>Discussion</name>
<t>Community consensus is a very high bar, much higher than is required for a meeting in <t>Community consensus is a very high bar, much higher than is required for a meeting in
Asia, Europe or North America. For those ordinary meetings, the IASA c onsiders community Asia, Europe, or North America. For those ordinary meetings, the IASA considers community
feedback but is ultimately the decision maker and can choose to go ahe ad with a meeting in feedback but is ultimately the decision maker and can choose to go ahe ad with a meeting in
a particular city even if there is no community consensus on the suita bility of that city a particular city even if there is no community consensus on the suita bility of that city
for an IETF meeting. Furthermore, it has been demonstrated by the low attendance at some for an IETF meeting. Furthermore, it has been demonstrated by the low attendance at some
exploratory meetings that community consensus is orthogonal to the via bility of meeting in exploratory meetings that community consensus is orthogonal to the via bility of meeting in
a particular city.</t> a particular city.</t>
</section> </section>
<section> <section>
<name>Resolution: Replacement of the process for an exploratory meeting< /name> <name>Resolution: Replacement of the Process for an Exploratory Meeting< /name>
<t>This document replaces <xref target="RFC8719" section="4"/> and sets the new process as <t>This document replaces <xref target="RFC8719" section="4"/> and sets the new process as
follows:</t> follows:</t>
<t>Exploratory meetings may be scheduled by the IASA following its norma l processes, <t>Exploratory meetings may be scheduled by the IASA following its norma l processes,
including those for assessing the suitability of a particular city, co nsulting with the including those for assessing the suitability of a particular city, co nsulting with the
IETF community and deferring to the IESG if there is any concern that the core objective from <xref target="RFC8718"/> of 'why we meet’ might not be m et.</t> IETF community, and deferring to the IESG if there is any concern that the core objective from <xref target="RFC8718"/> of 'why we meet' might not be met.</t>
<t>The IASA should ensure that the frequency of exploratory meetings is such that it does not <t>The IASA should ensure that the frequency of exploratory meetings is such that it does not
redefine the concept of 'exploratory' and that the distribution of redefine the concept of 'exploratory' and that the distribution of
exploratory meetings does not disproportionately impact meetings in th e 1-1-1 regions.</t> exploratory meetings does not disproportionately impact meetings in th e 1-1-1 regions.</t>
</section> </section>
</section> </section>
<section> <section>
<name>Hotels and Facility</name> <name>Hotels and the Facility</name>
<section> <section>
<name>The “One Roof” Preference</name> <name>The "One-Roof" Preference</name>
<section> <section>
<name>Current Policy</name> <name>Current Policy</name>
<t><xref target="RFC8718"/> defines “IETF Hotels” as:</t> <t><xref target="RFC8718"/> defines "IETF Hotels" as:</t>
<blockquote>One or more hotels, in close proximity to the Facility, wh ere the IETF guest <blockquote>One or more hotels, in close proximity to the Facility, wh ere the IETF guest
room block allocations are negotiated and where network services man aged by the IASA room block allocations are negotiated and where network services man aged by the IASA
(e.g., the "IETF" SSID) are in use.</blockquote> (e.g., the "IETF" SSID) are in use.</blockquote>
<t>It also provides the following important criteria (only listing tho se directly <t>It also provides the following important criteria (only listing tho se directly
relevant):</t> relevant):</t>
<blockquote><ul> <blockquote><ul>
<li>The IETF Hotels are within close proximity to each other and t he Facility.</li> <li>The IETF Hotels are within close proximity to each other and t he Facility.</li>
</ul></blockquote> </ul></blockquote>
<t>Additionally, <xref target="RFC8718"/> contains this preference:</t > <t>Additionally, <xref target="RFC8718"/> contains this preference:</t >
<blockquote><ul> <blockquote><ul>
<li>We have something of a preference for an IETF meeting to be un der "One Roof"; that <li>We have something of a preference for an IETF meeting to be un der "One Roof"; that
is, qualified meeting space and guest rooms are available in the same facility.</li> is, qualified meeting space and guest rooms are available in the same facility.</li>
</ul></blockquote> </ul></blockquote>
</section> </section>
<section> <section>
<name>Discussion</name> <name>Discussion</name>
<t>What happens in practice is that the IASA books a venue that confor ms to one of two <t>What happens in practice is that the IASA books a venue that confor ms to one of two
separate configurations:</t> separate configurations:</t>
<ol> <ol type="1" spacing="normal">
<li><t>A "one roof" venue of a hotel with the meeting space in the h <li><t>A "one-roof" venue of a hotel with the meeting space in the h
otel or directly otel or directly
attached.</t> attached.</t>
<t>The advantages of this configuration are:</t> <t>The advantages of this configuration are:</t>
<ul> <ul spacing="normal">
<li>With a large enough room block, the meeting space is general ly free.</li> <li>With a large enough room block, the meeting space is general ly free.</li>
<li>For those IETF participants (and staff) that normally stay i n the IETF hotel, there is a strong sense of community.</li> <li>For those IETF participants (and staff) that normally stay i n the IETF hotel, there is a strong sense of community.</li>
<li>It is usually easier and more flexible to work with a single point of contact <li>It is usually easier and more flexible to work with a single point of contact
instead of several (convention centers with separate contacts instead of several (e.g., convention centers have separate con
for Audio/Visual services, Food/Beverages, and tacts for Audio/Visual services, Food/Beverage services, and meeting space).</li
space).</li> >
<li>It can be much cheaper for the IASA than working with a sepa rate convention <li>It can be much cheaper for the IASA than working with a sepa rate convention
center.</li> center.</li>
<li>Group discussions can more naturally move from the facility to the hotel.</li> <li>Group discussions can move more naturally from the facility to the hotel.</li>
<li>It is easier to negotiate network changes to the hotel as pa rt of an overall <li>It is easier to negotiate network changes to the hotel as pa rt of an overall
network package.</li> network package.</li>
<li>Someone can walk from their room to the meeting space in a f ew minutes, staying <li>Someone can walk from their room to the meeting space in a f ew minutes, staying
indoors the whole time. </li> indoors the whole time. </li>
</ul> </ul>
<t>The disadvantages are:</t> <t>The disadvantages are:</t>
<ul> <ul>
<!--[rfced] There are two instances of "to accommodate us". Is it okay
to refer to "us", or would it be clearer (or more formal) to say
"to accommodate the IETF meeting requirements" as shown below?
Original:
* There are a limited number of hotels (and therefore cities)
with large enough meeting space and sufficient rooms to
accommodate us.
While a "one-roof" venue is preferred, there are a limited number of
hotels (and therefore cities) with large enough meeting space and
sufficient rooms to accommodate us.
Perhaps:
* There are a limited number of hotels (and therefore cities)
with large enough meeting space and sufficient rooms to
accommodate the IETF meeting requirements.
While a "one-roof" venue is preferred, there are a limited number of
hotels (and therefore cities) with large enough meeting space and
sufficient rooms to accommodate the IETF meeting requirements.
-->
<li>There are a limited number of hotels (and therefore cities) with large enough <li>There are a limited number of hotels (and therefore cities) with large enough
meeting space and sufficient rooms to accommodate us.</li> meeting space and sufficient rooms to accommodate us.</li>
<li>The room rates at conference hotels are often on the high si de and it can be <li>The room rates at conference hotels are often on the high si de, which can be
more expensive for IETF participants.</li> more expensive for IETF participants.</li>
</ul> </ul>
</li> </li>
<li><t>A meeting space not co-located with a hotel, normally a conve ntion center, but <li><t>A meeting space not co-located with a hotel (normally a conve ntion center) but
where there are hotels within a short walk.</t> where there are hotels within a short walk.</t>
<t>The advantages of this configuration are:</t> <t>The advantages of this configuration are:</t>
<ul> <ul spacing="normal">
<li>It makes many more cities available as potential venues.</li > <li>It makes many more cities available as potential venues.</li >
<li>It provides more options for local hotels.</li> <li>It provides more options for local hotels.</li>
<li>Convention centers generally have a range of nearby hotels e <li>It enables the IASA to negotiate a lower room rate than othe
nabling the IASA to rwise
negotiate a lower room rate than otherwise.</li> as convention centers generally have a range of hotels nearby.</l
i>
</ul> </ul>
<t>The disadvantages are:</t> <t>The disadvantages are:</t>
<ul> <ul spacing="normal">
<li>Convention centers are much more difficult to negotiate with <li>Convention centers are much more difficult to negotiate with
and less and are less
flexible.</li> flexible.</li>
<li>The IASA has to pay for the meeting space.</li> <li>The IASA has to pay for the meeting space.</li>
<li>For those IETF participants (and staff) that normally stay i n the IETF hotel, the sense of community is diminished.</li> <li>For those IETF participants (and staff) that normally stay i n the IETF hotel, the sense of community is diminished.</li>
<li>Choice of a main hotel and negotiation of the network for th at hotel are more <li>The choice of a main hotel and negotiation of the network fo r that hotel are more
complicated.</li> complicated.</li>
</ul> </ul>
</li> </li>
</ol> </ol>
<t>While a "one-roof" venue is preferred, there are a limited number o f hotels (and <t>While a "one-roof" venue is preferred, there are a limited number o f hotels (and
therefore cities) with large enough meeting space and sufficient roo ms to accommodate therefore cities) with large enough meeting space and sufficient roo ms to accommodate
us. To meet in cities that do not have suitable "one-roof" venues, t he IASA needs to us. To meet in cities that do not have suitable "one-roof" venues, t he IASA needs to
work with convention centers. If it did not take this approach then work with convention centers. If this approach is not taken, then ma
many cities and ny cities and
potentially some countries would be practically excluded as meeting potentially some countries will be practically excluded as meeting v
venues.</t> enues.</t>
<t>It should also be noted that a "one-roof" venue shifts the costs of <t>It should also be noted that a "one-roof" venue shifts the costs of
the meeting more the meeting
onto participants than a convention center, where the costs are shif onto participants whereas a convention center shifts the costs onto
ted more towards the the
IASA.</t> IASA.</t>
<t>Despite "one-roof" being expressed as a preference in <xref target= "RFC8718"/> there <t>Despite "one roof" being expressed as a preference in <xref target= "RFC8718"/>, there
are some in the community who consider it as the only way to meet th e requirement for are some in the community who consider it as the only way to meet th e requirement for
"close proximity".</t> "close proximity".</t>
</section> </section>
<section> <section>
<name>Resolution: Clarification of Interpretation</name> <name>Resolution: Clarification of Interpretation</name>
<t>To address this concern, the IASA should interpret the "close proxi
mity" requirement of <t>To address this concern, the IASA should interpret the "close
<xref target="RFC8718"/> as follows: </t> proximity" requirement of <xref target="RFC8718"/> as follows: </t>
<t indent="1">Where the meeting space is a convention center or other <t indent="5">Where the meeting space is a convention center or
facility without a another facility without a directly attached hotel, the "close
directly attached hotel, the “close proximity” requirement for the I proximity" requirement for the IETF Hotels should mean
ETF Hotels should be that the time it takes to walk from the IETF Hotels to the meeting
taken to mean that the time it takes to walk from the IETF Hotels to space should be no longer than ten minutes, and it should be a safe wa
the meeting space lk including
should be no longer than ten minutes, and a safe walk, including ear early in the morning and late at night.</t>
ly in the morning <t>It should be noted that <xref target="RFC8718" sectionFormat="of"
and late at night.</t> section="3.2.2"/> already uses a walkability test of 5-10 minutes
<t>It should be noted that <xref target="RFC8718" sectionFormat="of" s for a similar purpose.</t>
ection="3.2.2"/>
already uses a walkability test of 5-10 minutes for a similar purpos
e.</t>
</section> </section>
</section> </section>
<section> <section>
<name>Number of rooms reserved</name> <name>Number of Rooms Reserved</name>
<section> <section>
<name>Current Policy</name> <name>Current Policy</name>
<t><xref target="RFC8718"/> includes the following requirement as an i mportant <t><xref target="RFC8718"/> includes the following requirement as an i mportant
criterion:</t> criterion:</t>
<blockquote><ul> <blockquote><ul>
<li>The guest rooms at the IETF Hotels are sufficient in number to house one-third or <li>The guest rooms at the IETF Hotels are sufficient in number to house one-third or
more of the projected meeting attendees.</li> more of the projected meeting attendees.</li>
</ul></blockquote> </ul></blockquote>
</section> </section>
<section> <section>
<name>Discussion</name> <name>Discussion</name>
<t>COVID-driven cancellations and lockdowns have badly affected the ho spitality industry <t>COVID-driven cancellations and lockdowns have badly affected the ho spitality industry
overall. Hotels and convention centers are now much more cautious ab out the terms of overall. Hotels and convention centers are now much more cautious ab out the terms of
their bookings and much less willing to invest to secure a booking, as they aim to their bookings and much less willing to invest in securing a booking , as they aim to
protect themselves from any similar sudden loss of income. For examp le, many hotels are protect themselves from any similar sudden loss of income. For examp le, many hotels are
now requiring payment in full in advance for guest room blocks from now requiring conference organizers to provide full payment in advan
conference ce for guest room blocks.</t>
organizers.</t>
<t>Where the IASA can get a large room block, it is finding that hotel s are less willing <t>Where the IASA can get a large room block, it is finding that hotel s are less willing
to provide good discounts and so room pricing is not always on a par to provide good discounts, so room pricing is not always on a par wi
with other nearby th other nearby
hotels, with a smaller number of available rooms.</t> hotels that have a smaller number of available rooms.</t>
<t>Then there is the impact of the now ubiquitous offering of short-te rm apartment rental <t>Then there is the impact of the now ubiquitous offering of short-te rm apartment rental
sites. These sites are significant competitors to hotels for travele r accommodation both sites. These sites are significant competitors to hotels for travele r accommodation both
in price and availability.</t> in price and availability.</t>
<t>The net result is that the IASA is reserving more hotel rooms than are being used, <t>The net result is that the IASA is reserving more hotel rooms than are being used,
which exposes it to unnecessary risk as they are required to financi ally guarantee which exposes it to unnecessary risk as they are required to financi ally guarantee
certain levels of occupancy, and leads to wasted effort.</t> certain levels of occupancy, and this leads to wasted effort.</t>
</section> </section>
<section> <section>
<name>Resolution: Update to RFC 8718</name> <name>Resolution: Update to RFC 8718</name>
<t>To address this, this document updates <xref target="RFC8718" secti
on="3.2.4"/> to <!-- [rfced] FYI: RFC 8718 states "one-third or more of projected
replace the requirement for the total room block in the IETF Hotels meeting attendees" rather than "one-third of the projected
from “one-third of attendees", so we have updated the text accordingly.
the projected attendees” to a more flexible “sufficient rooms to mee
t the expected Original:
demand”.</t> To address this, this document updates Section 3.2.4 of [RFC8718] to
replace the requirement for the total room block in the IETF Hotels
from "one-third of the projected attendees" to a more flexible
"sufficient rooms to meet the expected demand".
Current:
To address this issue, this document updates Section 3.2.4 of [RFC8718]
by replacing the total room block requirement for the IETF Hotels from
"one-third or more of projected attendees" to a more flexible
"sufficient rooms to meet the expected demand".
-->
<t>To address this issue, this document updates <xref target="RFC8718"
section="3.2.4"/> by
replacing the total room block requirement for IETF Hotels from
"one-third or more of projected meeting attendees" to a more flexible
"sufficient rooms to meet the expected demand".</t>
</section> </section>
</section> </section>
<section> <section>
<name>Overflow Hotels</name> <name>Overflow Hotels</name>
<section> <section>
<name>Current Policy</name> <name>Current Policy</name>
<t><xref target="RFC8718" section="1"/> defines "Overflow Hotels" as f ollows:</t> <t><xref target="RFC8718" section="1"/> defines "Overflow Hotels" as f ollows:</t>
<blockquote><t>One or more hotels, usually in close proximity to the F acility, where the <blockquote><t>One or more hotels, usually in close proximity to the F acility, where the
IASA has negotiated a group room rate for the purposes of the meet ing. IETF has negotiated a group room rate for the purposes of the meet ing.
</t></blockquote> </t></blockquote>
<t>The concept is further expanded in <xref target="RFC8718" section=" 3.2.4" <t>The concept is further expanded in <xref target="RFC8718" section=" 3.2.4"
sectionFormat="comma"/>:</t> sectionFormat="of"/>:</t>
<blockquote><t>Overflow Hotels can be placed under contract, within co nvenient travel time <blockquote><t>Overflow Hotels can be placed under contract, within co nvenient travel time
to and from the Facility and at a variety of guest room rates</t>< /blockquote> to and from the Facility and at a variety of guest room rates</t>< /blockquote>
</section> </section>
<section> <section>
<name>Discussion</name> <name>Discussion</name>
<t>The IASA has historically contracted with overflow hotels including those at other <t>The IASA has historically contracted with overflow hotels including those at other
price points from the IETF Hotels. They were very underutilized by a ttendees, reflecting price points from the IETF Hotels. They were very underutilized by a ttendees, reflecting
the general under-utilization of IETF contracted room blocks, exposi the general underutilization of IETF contracted room blocks and expo
ng the IASA to sing the IASA to
financial risk and with little benefit to participants. As a result, financial risk with little benefit to participants. As a result, the
the use of overflow use of overflow
hotels has reduced and they are rarely contracted. However, due to t hotels has reduced, and they are rarely contracted. However, due to
he way they are the way they are
incorporated into <xref target="RFC8718"/> there are still many who incorporated into <xref target="RFC8718"/>, there are still many who
believe these are, believe these are,
or should be, a normal feature of IETF meetings.</t> or should be, a normal feature of IETF meetings.</t>
</section> </section>
<section> <section>
<name>Resolution: Clarification of Interpretation</name> <name>Resolution: Clarification of Interpretation</name>
<t>To address this, the IASA should interpret any reference to Overflo w Hotels as an <t>To address this issue, the IASA should interpret any reference to O verflow Hotels as an
entirely optional feature that the IASA can choose to provide at its own discretion.</t> entirely optional feature that the IASA can choose to provide at its own discretion.</t>
</section> </section>
</section> </section>
<section> <section>
<name>Ad-hoc Space Including the Lounge and Terminal Room</name> <name>Ad Hoc Space including the Lounge and Terminal Room</name>
<section> <section>
<name>Current Policy</name> <name>Current Policy</name>
<t><xref target="RFC8718" section="3.2.2"/> and <xref target="RFC8718"
sectionFormat="bare" section="3.2.4"/> include the following requi <t>Sections <xref target="RFC8718" section="3.2.2" sectionFormat="bare
rements as important "/> and <xref target="RFC8718"
sectionFormat="bare" section="3.2.4"/> of <xref target="RFC8718"/>
include the following requirements as important
criteria:</t> criteria:</t>
<blockquote><ul> <blockquote><ul>
<li>There are sufficient places (e.g., a mix of hallways, bars, me eting rooms, and <li>There are sufficient places (e.g., a mix of hallways, bars, me eting rooms, and
restaurants) for people to hold ad hoc conversations and group d iscussions in the restaurants) for people to hold ad hoc conversations and group d iscussions in the
combination of spaces offered by the facilities, hotels, and bar s/restaurants in the combination of spaces offered by the facilities, hotels, and bar s/restaurants in the
surrounding area, within walking distance (5-10 minutes). </li> surrounding area, within walking distance (5-10 minutes). </li>
<li>At least one IETF Hotel or the Facility has a space for use as a lounge, conducive <li>At least one IETF Hotel or the Facility has a space for use as a lounge, conducive
to planned and ad hoc meetings and chatting, as well as a space for working online. to planned and ad hoc meetings and chatting, as well as a space for working online.
There are tables with seating, convenient for small meetings wit h laptops. These can There are tables with seating, convenient for small meetings wit h laptops. These can
be at an open bar or casual restaurant. Preferably the lounge ar ea is centrally be at an open bar or casual restaurant. Preferably the lounge ar ea is centrally
located, permitting easy access to participants. </li> located, permitting easy access to participants. </li>
</ul></blockquote> </ul></blockquote>
<t>While not a formal requirement, a Terminal Room, described as a ded <t>While not a formal requirement, a Terminal Room (described as a ded
icated room with icated room with
extended opening hours beyond the normal hours of IETF meetings, Eth extended opening hours beyond the normal hours of IETF meetings), Et
ernet connectivity, hernet connectivity,
a printer and a staffed helpdesk, has been a long-standing feature o a printer, and a staffed help desk have been long-standing features
f IETF meetings.</t> of IETF meetings.</t>
</section> </section>
<section> <section>
<name>Discussion</name> <name>Discussion</name>
<t>Both the Lounge and the Terminal Room are regularly but lightly use <t>Both the Lounge and the Terminal Room are used regularly but lightl
d, far below y, i.e., far below
capacity. The reason for this is explained in the feedback to post-m capacity. The reason for this is explained in the feedback to post-m
eeting surveys: most eeting surveys: Most
participants want an immediately accessible ad-hoc meeting space, wh participants want an immediately accessible ad hoc meeting space, wh
ich is best provided ich is best provided
by plenty of hallway seating. The IASA has responded to this feedbac by plenty of hallway seating.
k by adopting a new
practice of hiring in hallway seating whenever that provided by the <!--[rfced] Can "hiring" be replaced with "renting" or "providing" for
venue is clarity as shown below?
Original:
The IASA has responded to this feedback by adopting
a new practice of hiring in hallway seating whenever
that provided by the venue is insufficient.
Perhaps:
The IASA has responded to this feedback by adopting
a new practice of renting in-hallway seating whenever
that provided by the venue is insufficient.
-->
The IASA has responded to this feedback by adopting a new
practice of hiring in-hallway seating whenever that provided by the
venue is
insufficient.</t> insufficient.</t>
<t>Dedicated rooms, such as the Lounge or Terminal Room, or external f acilities "within <t>Dedicated rooms, such as the Lounge or Terminal Room, or external f acilities "within
walking distance (5-10 minutes)" are unsuitable for the majority of participant needs, walking distance (5-10 minutes)" are unsuitable for the majority of participant needs,
though there remains a need for quiet places to work between session s.</t> though there remains a need for quiet places to work between session s.</t>
</section> </section>
<section> <section>
<!-- [rfced] FYI: We updated the following text to make the sections
and RFC being referenced clearer:
Original:
To address this, is updated as follows: [RFC8718]
1. Section 3.2.2 is updated so that the bullet on ad-hoc meeting
space now reads:
There are sufficient, easily accessible places within the
Facility for people to hold ad hoc conversations and group
discussions.
2. Section 3.2.4 is updated so that the bullet on the lounge now
reads:
There are sufficient places within the Facility suitable for
people to work online on their own devices.
Current:
To address this, [RFC8718] is updated as follows:
1. Section 3.2.2 of [RFC8718] is updated so that the entry on
ad hoc meeting space (first bullet) now reads:
| There are sufficient, easily accessible places within the
| Facility for people to hold ad hoc conversations and group
| discussions.
2. Section 3.2.4 of [RFC8718] is updated so that the entry on
the lounge (sixth bullet) now reads:
| There are sufficient places within the Facility suitable for
| people to work online on their own devices.
-->
<name>Resolution: Update to RFC 8718</name> <name>Resolution: Update to RFC 8718</name>
<t>To address this, <xref target="RFC8718"> is updated as follows:</xr <t>To address this issue, <xref target="RFC8718"/> is updated as follo
ef></t> ws:</t>
<ol> <ol type="1" spacing="normal">
<li><t>Section <xref target="RFC8718" section="3.2.2" sectionFormat= <li><t><xref target="RFC8718" section="3.2.2"
"bare"/> is updated sectionFormat="of"/> is updated so that the entry on ad hoc
so that the bullet on ad-hoc meeting space now reads:</t> meeting space (first bullet) now reads:</t>
<t indent="1">There are sufficient, easily accessible places withi <blockquote>There are sufficient, easily accessible places within
n the Facility for the Facility for
people to hold ad hoc conversations and group discussions.</t></ people to hold ad hoc conversations and group discussions.</bloc
li> kquote></li>
<li><t>Section <xref target="RFC8718" section="3.2.4" sectionFormat= <li><t><xref target="RFC8718" section="3.2.4"
"bare"/> is updated sectionFormat="of"/> is updated so that the entry on the lounge (six
so that the bullet on the lounge now reads:</t> th bullet) now reads:</t>
<t indent="1">There are sufficient places within the Facility suit <blockquote>There are sufficient places within the Facility suitab
able for people to le for people to
work online on their own devices.</t></li> work online on their own devices.</blockquote></li>
</ol> </ol>
</section> </section>
</section> </section>
</section> </section>
<section anchor="IANA"> <section anchor="IANA">
<!-- All drafts are required to have an IANA considerations section. See R FC 8126 for a guide.-->
<name>IANA Considerations</name> <name>IANA Considerations</name>
<t>This memo includes no request to IANA.</t> <t>This document has no IANA actions.</t>
</section> </section>
<section anchor="Security"> <section anchor="Security">
<!-- All drafts are required to have a security considerations section. Se e RFC 3552 for a guide. -->
<name>Security Considerations</name> <name>Security Considerations</name>
<t>This document should not affect the security of the Internet.</t> <t>This document should not affect the security of the Internet.</t>
</section> </section>
<!-- NOTE: The Acknowledgements and Contributors sections are at the end of this template -->
</middle> </middle>
<back> <back>
<references> <references>
<name>References</name> <name>References</name>
<references> <references>
<name>Normative References</name> <name>Normative References</name>
<xi:include href="https://www.rfc-editor.org/refs/bibxml/reference.RFC.8 718.xml"/> <xi:include href="https://www.rfc-editor.org/refs/bibxml/reference.RFC.8 718.xml"/>
<xi:include href="https://www.rfc-editor.org/refs/bibxml/reference.RFC.8 719.xml"/> <xi:include href="https://www.rfc-editor.org/refs/bibxml/reference.RFC.8 719.xml"/>
</references> </references>
</references> </references>
<!--[rfced] Are these contributors considered coauthors for their
contributions, or should the Contributors section perhaps be
retitled "Acknowledgements" and the text be updated as shown
below? Please let us know your preference.
Original:
Contributors
Thanks to all of the contributors: Laura Nugent, Stephanie McCammon,
Alexa Morris, Greg Wood, Lars Eggert Eggert and Jason Livingood.
Perhaps:
Acknowledgements
Thanks to the following people for their contributions to
this document: Laura Nugent, Stephanie McCammon, Alexa Morris,
Greg Wood, Lars Eggert Eggert, and Jason Livingood.
-->
<section anchor="Contributors" numbered="false"> <section anchor="Contributors" numbered="false">
<name>Contributors</name> <name>Contributors</name>
<t>Thanks to all of the contributors: Laura Nugent, Stephanie McCammon, Al <t>Thanks to all of the contributors: <contact fullname="Laura
exa Morris, Greg Nugent"/>, <contact fullname="Stephanie McCammon"/>, <contact
Wood, Lars Eggert and Jason Livingood.</t> fullname="Alexa Morris"/>, <contact fullname="Greg Wood"/>, <contact
fullname="Lars Eggert"/>, and <contact fullname="Jason Livingood"/>.</t>
</section> </section>
<!-- [rfced] Terminology
a) Throughout the text, the following terminology appears to be used
inconsistently. Please review these occurrences and let us know if/how they
may be made consistent.
Lounge vs. lounge
(Note: lowercase in RFC 8718)
Meeting (Rotation) Policy vs. meeting rotation policy
(Note: appears as "meeting policy" in RFC 8719. Perhaps use
"meeting (rotation) policy" or "meeting rotation policy"
for consistency in Sections 2 and 3.1.)
One Roof vs. one roof
(Note: uppercase in RFC 8718.)
Overflow Hotels vs. overflow hotels
(Note: uppercase in RFC 8718.)
Terminal Room
(Note: lowercase in RFC 8718 and other RFCs.)
b) Should one instance of "facility" perhaps be "Facility" in Section 4.1.2?
Original:
* Group discussions can more naturally move from the facility to
the hotel.
Perhaps:
* Group discussions can move more naturally from the facility to
the hotel.
-->
<!-- [rfced] Please review the "Inclusive Language" portion of the online
Style Guide <https://www.rfc-editor.org/styleguide/part2/#inclusive_language>
and let us know if any changes are needed.
Note that our script did not flag any words in particular, but this should
still be reviewed as a best practice.
-->
</back> </back>
</rfc> </rfc>
 End of changes. 65 change blocks. 
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